Now that I have your attention … To build up your starter, the best thing you can do is DOUBLE refresh your starter. Back to back, without refrigerating it
For beginners, I would recommend maintaining a white roller milled starter. I can predict the timing of a white starter. All white roller milled flours across the world are similar, and so this means I can be more precise with timings and temperature.
Ironically to get a white starter you need to convert a wholegrain one that you have developed with organic microbe-rich flour. It might seem counter-intuitive but the white starter is a slow starter that peeks after 8 – 12 hours. It means you can refresh before you go to bed and it will be at its microbial peek as you wake up in the morning. To convert, you simply change your refreshment flour and use white roller milled flour.
Most people want a set routine when it comes to refreshing starters.
For beginners I would recommend the following:
- 100g roller milled white flour
- 100g water at 23C
- 25g of sourdough starter. (please discard the rest – or you can use it in other formulas)
Mix together the flour, water and starter in a clean pot, and put a lid on that is not airtight. Leave for 8 hours at room temperature (22C) and it will be ready to use when it has doubled in size. You can use it for about 2 – 3 hours. At this point, you do two things. Make your leaven whilst it is wild and bubbly and active. Then you pop it back in the fridge unit the next time you need to use it.
This way it is stored whist the microbes are at their highest number.
Leave it any longer and it will start to sink as the gluten starts to degrade. It is best to put it back in the fridge. You need to refresh it about once a week even when you are not baking.
Once you start getting familiar with this routine you can start to tweak the water, the temperature and the timings, but to begin with please stick to this routine.
TOP TIP
For the domestic baker who wants to make amazing bread like the bakeries, refreshing once isn’t enough to build the numbers that a starter in a bakery has. To build up your starter, the best thing you can do is DOUBLE refresh your starter. Back to back, without refrigerating it. The white roller milled starter is easy to refresh because this can be done about 12 hours apart.
For example…
Timings to refresh your starter for the retarded method:
I like to refresh at 10 am and again at 10 pm the day before I bake. This will give you the best loaf.
An example if you want to bake on Sunday:
- Refresh Friday Morning at 10am
- Refresh Friday Night at 10pm
- Saturday morning make a fast leaven and then pop your starter straight back in the fridge.
Things to Refresh your starter for the ambient method:
Refresh the night before you want to make your leaven, and again in the morning.
An example is that if you want to bake on a Saturday:
- Refresh on Thursday Evening at 10 pm
- Refresh Friday morning at 10am
- Friday night at about 9 pm your starter is ready to use to make your slow white leaven, then pop your starter straight back in the fridge.
Please note: when you take your starter out of the fridge to begin your refreshment schedule don’t worry if there is a hooch on top (a grey liquid), it is a naturally occurring alcohol and it just means your starter is ready to be fed. Just stir it back in, or if it is very old (ie you have been away for some time) pour it away.
Now your sourdough starter is ready, it’s time to start baking – join the Sourdough Club
Sorry for half comment. The room temperature here is Around 33 degrees
use colder water Anita x
Can I just be clear about a second refreshment. Do you take 25g of the first refreshment and add 100g of flour and water or do you add another 100g of flour and water to the first refreshment mixture?
Thanks
As I understand it, you take 25g of the first refreshment mixture.
What if it’s stayed longer like few days? And have strong smell? Can I still use it?
eek … ok so if it is smelling butyric .. .Like cheese, it is a bit hard to recover. are you keeping it in the fridge between refreshments?
Vanessa
I’m a bit confused about the discarding the starter. Is the following correct:
– take 25g from your ‘mother’ starter which you’ve kept in the fridge
– refresh it bringing it up to about 225g of new starter
– discard 200g
– refresh the remaining 25g again with 200g of water/flour to make 225g again
– use 25g of this double refreshed starter to make the leaven
– I now have about 200g left of the double refreshed starter and about 200g roughly of the ‘mother’ still in the fridge.
Q. What do I do with both of these two starters? Does the double refreshed 200g become the new ‘mother’ and we discard the old mother?
Hi Paul,
Yes correct.
There are recipes you can use with the discard.
The new book coming has many in but check out the sweet sourdough section for more ideas.
V
That was my exact confusion too!! Thank you for articulating that so perfectly. I’ve been refreshing my ‘mother’, but it seems I shouldn’t keep the old mother? Is that the grandmother? I suppose it just builds up too fat of you keep the same one and refresh every week. I feel sort of sad discarding the original mother, I’ve grown attached to it! It’s all a bit confusing, but my bread is turning out great, nevertheless!
Hi Anjoli yes people do find it hard to discard sometimes but once you get used to it it becomes perfectly normal. You can either use the discard in other recipes See Using Up Leftover Starter https://thesourdoughclub.com/category/formulas-recipes/leftover-starter-recipes/ or in some Sweet Sourdough recipes. Or you can compost it.
Every time we refresh we discard the leftover – this keeps the levels of microbes up, otherwise they would decline. I tend to wait until my most recent refreshment has performed well, then discard the oldest starter i have leftover and repeat each time. Think of your newest starter as the ‘Mother’ 🙂 great that your bread is turning out well 🙂
Thank you! That certainly helps to clarify things x
Hi,
I am a bit confused about the temperature of the water used for refreshing the starter. In this recipe it is 100 gr water at 23C, but in the sourdough school book it is 36C. Which one is the right temperature I should use?
I am assuming 8-10 hrs waiting time to reach the peak.
Many thanks
Berin – there is not an exact temperature.
The book was specifically to cultivate the Homofermentative bacteria.
So lower water makes it take longer and it is slightly sourer.
Hope that helps.
Vx
Hi,
I have a rye starter going for 2 weeks now. I’m refreshing it accordingly ‘how to make a starter’ section and discarding half (100g) and adding 50g water +50g flour. I was doing it twice a day once in the morning once in the evening. As I’m still waiting for flour delivery (nothing in the shops where I live) should I pop it into a fridge now and refresh few times when I’m equipped to bake or keep refreshing it like I was or start refreshing it by using 25g of the mother and 100g water and 100g flour?
So far it’s been doing well – it’s doubling the size and it’s very bubbly, it’s thick but falls of the spoon easily.
Thank you for help with my confusion.
Kasia
Double refresh question, when you go to refresh the second time do you wait until the first refresh has peaked and reached the mature point or ideally just before that?
Hi Tori,
Yes exactly that.
Vanessa
X
Hi
I wondered if you had any advice on maintaining a starter in times of flour shortages. I certainly cannot get hold of any roller milled flour, and would be lucky to maintain enough flour to be refreshing 100g at a time plus the amounts for leaven and bread making.
Many thanks
Louise
Working on exactly that now.
Brilliant, thanks.
How do you know if your flour is Roller Milled? I have some Shipton Mill Italian Style flour but it doesn’t tell me if it is Roller milled. Many thanks
Oddly enough it is toller milled unless it says stoneground ono the pack.
Weird I know.
Thanks
Hi,
I have two question:
1.you use a 1: 4: 4 to refresh your starter. In general what I have seen is 1: 1: 1, I suppose it is by the force of your starter and quality of flour. it is right?
2. My flour is a white flour and not very good quality and I have an ambient temperature of 11-17 °C in the day. should I still use a 1: 4: 4 for refresh my starter?
Tks
Tania, Colombia
Tania,
There is no one way t refresh a starter.
Sometimes I use 40% hydration .. sometimes I use 110% .. it depends on what I an trying to achieve ..
Do you have a preference for flavour?
V
Hello,
I have a question regarding the flour for the white roller-milled starter:
– So I used a white enriched all-purpose flour for the starter, it worked very good, making bubbles and doubling in size at its peak. I am wondering how the enriched affects the starter or the bread. it’s a 8.5% protein flour from chile, very fine, the brand is Mont Blanc
Thanks 🙂
Francisco León
It is fone for refreshment but not ideal.
Not good for making the boules though.
Vx
Hi
I started my sourdough starter about 3 weeks ago. It has a nice amount of bubbles has never doubled (or anything close to that) in size. Every time I refresh it it is still the same size as the time before. I have been refreshing it at least twice a day with Mullino Murino 00 Hard Flour.
Thanks.
Lara
Lara – sounds like you did not have enough microbes built up.
Go back to how to create a starter and follow this for 4/5 days and rebuild the microbes with wholegrain twice a day every day 28C
Then go back to 00
Vx
Hi Vanessa, could you please advise which exact flour you using to feed your French starter. Got yours and it lost this lovely sweet yoghurt smell , believe it’s because of the flour I am using- Starter working perfectly fine.
Thank you in advance
Jola
Jolanta,
yes you are right – a white flour will keep it sweeter.
So I use marriages or 00 Mulino Marino.
I always use organic, but any white 12.5 – 13% protein bread flour will be fine.
Vx
Perfect, thank you ?
Take care x
Hi,
I just started watching the videos and I was wondering: I have a sourdough starter and I’ve always fed it 70%-80% white flour and 20%-30% rye flour. So for example: When I refresh I take 20 grams of the starter, add 100 grams of water, then 25 grams of rye and 75 grams of white flour. Can I convert this now to 100% white flour and just leave out the rye next time? In my experience it never bubbles quite as nice and doesn’t have the same rise but maybe I have to figure out whether I’m doing something wrong…
No Rye is just different. .. its good the play and get used to how different flours behave. You will find different timings & flavours and in the end settle of your favourite.
What does “roller milled” mean? Also what mill do you recommended to purchase for at Home use!?
Hi Katie this will explain the flour for you https://thesourdoughclub.com/an-overview-of-flour/
And here is our home mill recommendations https://www.sourdough.co.uk/mockmill-how-to-mill-your-own-flour/
Hope this helps? 🙂
Gosh, lots to absorb.
I have only ever used Spelt Wholemeal and was having trouble getting any. So purchased 25kg bag from Sharpham Park, obviously a bit gutted about now having to get white flower, from…..??. difficult at the moment. I will order your book and see if there are any wholemeal recipes ,whilst attempting to get some white flour.
Regards Gay
Hi Gay sorry for the delay with this! Have you had any luck? You can use your Spelt Wholegrain in place of the Wholegrain we use in the Classic 20% and 50% formulas. For the white flour:
Some websites are selling 1x 16kg bag of flour to each customer. Others have a queuing system, delivery slots, specific days/mornings when open:
BakeryBits who manage our shop for us are next open 3 mornings a week for orders https://www.bakerybits.co.uk/
Marriages https://flour.co.uk/ – large bags only
Shipton Mill https://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-direct-shop – need to request a delivery slot when available
FWP Matthews https://www.fwpmatthews.co.uk/store/ – looks good for small bags and opens daily at 10am
Sharpham Park https://www.sharphampark.com/ – spelt
Gilchesters https://gilchesters.com/product/ – opens most Tuesdays
They all keep stocking back up and re-opening so the only answer is to sign up to their newsletters, check each website daily and throughout the day, check their messages re opening days on their websites.
Really hope that helps? Lucy x
Hi Vanessa, I currently have two starters, a white and a wholemeal, that I created and maintain as per the guidance in your Sourdough School book. However at the start of the lockdown I was unable to get roller-milled strong white bread flour, but managed to get stoneground strong white from a local artisan mill in Bedfordshire. I had been using this to refresh the white starter, which is now very lively! I now have some roller-milled strong white and therefore last refreshed the white starter using this flour (in fact I used 75g rolled-milled white & 25g wholemeal based on the guidance in your tutorial above). My question is whether I should maintain this existing white starter or create a new one by converting some of the wholemeal starter?
Keith how many babies do you want to feed?
Starters are demanding and so you swap flour when ever you want .. it is robust and you can use whatever flour you need to ..but just keep an eye o the rate of fermentation and readiness and it will change according to the flour you use.
Happy baking Vx
In the interest of reducing the amount of pots I have to wash.
From a 200g Starter, am I ok to remove 175g of the starter and just add the flour and water into the original pot?
(Also what font is this? it’s really nice!)
HI Stephen yes you can absolutely do that. At some point just make sure you do give that original pot a good clean. I am not sure which font it is sorry! However you can download an app that will tell you – ‘the most graceful way to identify a font in the wild is with the free WhatTheFont Mobile app. Just launch the app and then snap a photo of the text wherever it appears’
Hope that works!
Best
Lucy
Hello Vanessa,
I’m a bit confused about my white starter. Is the following correct:
-Refresh back to back twice a day.
-I only discard around 100g every time before refreshing my starter everyday.
– If I’m not bake every week can I put my starter in the fridge?
-How long can I leave in the fridge without feed?
– When I would like to bake again when can I feed the starter? And how long after I can make my dough?
Kind regards
Cristina Maia
Thanks for the clear info. I just started feeding twice today, I never did this… So very helpful. Can I ask a slightly of topic question? I am also throwing my own bowls and mugs and love this pot to keep my starter. Can you tell me the sizes? I was looking it up on the internet but can’t find it. Thank you soo much.
Hi Ann, the ceramic pots are 600ml.
Hi Vanessa
Can I just check, I have made a wholemeal starter and then merged across to a white starter, refreshing using the 50% out, 50% replace process for the first few times. Then, once white, I then popped it in the fridge. Am I right in thinking I can leave it in there and refresh it every week or so using the process above unless I am baking with it of course? Also can I just take it out of the fridge and refresh it or does it need to sit on the side and warm up first?
Hi Louise, most important is that when you use your starter and when you put the remaining starter back into the fridge it is at peak condition. More information can be found in this tutorial: https://thesourdoughclub.com/how-to-refresh-a-sourdough-starter/ – there is a chart that outlines the process as well as the video. Vx